Tongues means what?

[TATDADDY aka kevin woltkamp]

I know there were discussions in the archives but there were way to many pages to sift through and i have specific questions, so please dont stone me! J/k

Question:

The book of acts speaks of believers being given the gift of Tongues. The gift was speaking in languages that they did not learn by education but by spiritual endowment to speak to people the wonders of God. The gift was the ability to speak in new languages so where do we get the teaching of a "heavenly" prayer language? I was taught this but i dont remember where this came from exactly, please help a brother out.

~and i do believe in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit just so we all on the same page

[Andrew Vasquez]

how bout reading 1 Corinthians 14:2;14. Let me know what you think of the verse?

[Robert Jimenez]

You beat me to the punch!

1 Cor. 14:2;14 For those who speak in a tongue do not speak to other people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit... 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.TNIV

[Andrew Vasquez]

haha, I was trying to see if TATDADDY could discern this verse.

[TATDADDY aka kevin woltkamp]

brother, this isnt a competition as to who can "stump" who, im not in this for that, i want Truth and thats why im here

[TATDADDY aka kevin woltkamp]

i will do this but will you read 1 cor 14:6-12 and tell me what you think.

~this is true sharpening, thanks man!

[Pastor Jerome H. Weymouth]

Heavenly prayer language was a term coined up in the 20th century, and almost all Pentecostals and Charismatics accept it as a legitimate way to describe Speaking in tongues.

Jesus promised His disciples that signs would follow those who believe, “And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover” (Mark 16:17, 18)*

Also please consider what Jack Hayford has to say about "Speaking in tongues"

SPIRITUAL LANGUAGE—a more contemporary term for “speaking with tongues.” Even though “tongues” is a biblical expression, it tends to conjure strange images to some people’s minds of uncontrolled speech or incoherent, babbling ecstasy, or gibberish—none of which are ever “tongues.” The term “spiritual” because its source is the Holy Spirit, or “heavenly” because it comes from God, are words used to describe the supernatural exercise of “speaking with tongues.”
The term “ecstasy” is never associated with tongue-speakers in the Bible. Observers, ardent adherents, and antagonists of spiritual language all have used the term “ecstatic speech” for “speaking in tongues,” but it isn’t biblical. Ecstasy is defined as: “A state of being beyond reason and self-control through intense emotional excitement, pain or other sensation.” While joy or happiness often attends the experience of the Spirit’s overflowing the soul, the exercise of spiritual language isn’t “losing control.” Neither is this wonder merely a fanning of emotions to induce gibberish. Control may be surrendered to the Holy Spirit in each prayer, but it is not intended to be cast into the air or abandoned by succumbing to some state of mindless oblivion.

Moments of joyfulness or warm emotion are certainly present at times with most who humbly and openly enter the Savior’s presence with worship, “praying with the Spirit” (1 Cor. 14:15).

The assocation of “ecstasy” to “tongues” is probably due to the fact that this word’s root does appear in Acts 2:12, within the narrative of the Holy Spirit’s visitation at Pentecost: “So they were all amazed [ekistanto] and perplexed, saying to one another, ‘Whatever could this mean?’” The Greek verb eksistemi (from which we derive “ecstasy” in English) is in this passage, but not used of the ones who spoke with tongues; rather, it’s used of the observers, expressing their amazement (ecstasy) which prompted the inquiry they made about tongues-speaking.
The expression “spiritual language” as a more easily accepted description of tongues speaking is precisely biblical. The epistles refer to tongues much more than does Acts. Holy Spirit-assisted language is positively applied in prayer or praise: “Tongues” are said to be (1) “speaking to God” (1 Cor. 14:2), and (2) as “giving thanks” (1 Cor. 14:16-17), as Paul very approvingly speaks of these languages for use in devotion as well as in adoration (1 Cor. 14:5, 18). Notice his terminology in describing his own practice: “I will pray with the spirit…I will sing with the spirit” (1 Cor. 14:15), terms similar to those he uses in encouraging all believers to do the same (Eph. 5:18-19; 6:11-18).

The expression “spiritual language” is derived from references where speaking or singing with tongues involved as one is “filled with the Spirit” (Eph. 5:18) or “praying…in the Spirit” (Eph. 6:18). The biblical Greek—en pneumati “in the Spirit”—literally means, “in the spiritual realm and with the Holy Spirit’s aid.” In Paul’s encouragement to sing “spiritual songs” (Eph. 5:19), the word pneumatikos (“spiritual”) he uses is defined as “pertaining or relating to the influences of the Holy Spirit, superior in process to the natural course of things, miraculous.”
These texts show how accurately—and biblically—prayer and praise which speaks or sings in tongues may properly be described as using “spiritual language,” because the root “spirit” (pneuma) is common to the words used in describing tongues. Of course, using the word “spiritual” for this prayer language isn’t to suggest that spoken prayer or praise in one’s native language is unspiritual or semispiritual. Each form of prayer is at a different dimension, and neither should be described as unworthy.**

*Hayford, Jack W. ; Rosenberger, Herman: Appointed to Leadership : God's Principles for Spiritual Leaders. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1997, c1994 (Spirit-Filled Life Kingdom Dynamics Study Guides)

**Hayford, Jack W. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Hayford's Bible Handbook. Nashville : Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1995

[David Velasquez]

1 Corinthians 13

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

This verse implies that we can speak with angelic tongues, don't ask me what angelic tongues sound like bro, cause i do not know. haha but i can safely assume that some folks that have the gift of speaking in tongues may be speaking in angelic tongues.

[TATDADDY aka kevin woltkamp]

i dont understand the refrence here, are you implying we speak the "tongues" of angels? if so i ask what would be the big deal in this because one day we will judge angels



~if is speak in the languages of men or the languages of angels, but i dont have love, big deal im just noisy.

I just dont see how a doctrine saying we can speak in angels languages is derived from such a verse

[David Velasquez]

It is a big deal beloved- everything and anything coming from God to edify us is needed by us, who so easily fall at times. we need all the help we can get againts the desires of the flesh and speaking in tongues edifies me in the spirit.

i am not implying a thing bro - the word of God is implying that we can speak in tongues of angels. i am simply quoting a biblical verse that clearly states that humans can speak angelics tongues.

how many folks do you know they can speak languages they have not learned and don't even understand without the gift of interpretation but know for certain that they are being edify in the spirit - THIS AND ALL BIBLICAL TRUTH ARE A BIG DEAL BRO AND TO THINK OTHERWISE ONLY CAUSES THE PERSON TO CHEAT THEMSELVES FROM A BLESSING GOD INTENDED FOR THEM BRO.

IF YOU DO HAVE LOVE AND DO HAVE THE GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES THEN YOU ARE BEING EDIFYED IN THE SPIRIT, AS THE WORD TEACHES US AND PLEASE DON'T TELL ME YOU DON'T NEED TO BE EDIFY DIRECTLY BY THE HOLY SPIRIT CAUSE I WILL PERSONALLY DRIVE TO KC AND PIN YOU DOWN BIG GUY HAHAHAHA

STOP MAKING ANGRY BRO HAHAHA JUST MESSING WITH YOU KNOCKLE HEAD. HAHAHA

[Christopher Chapman]

i dont think the scripture tells us wwhether we are speaking an angelic language or an earthly language. in acts 2 they spoke human languages that were understood. in the other tongues passages in acts those present didnt understand. whether they were angelic or human language we cant know from the scripture. we only know that their are various kinds of tongues, both human and angeling (1 cor 13).

as for my normal tongues experience i speak in a language that i have heard around the world. it is similar every where i go. and it is not too complex in the sense of grammer or vocabulary. so maybe that is an angelic language. i dont know. it doesnt sound like a human language to me. but often in times of intercession i receive different more complex tongues. they sound more human in their grammer and vocabulary. i can even see a change in accent. these languages are different than my "default" tongue.

so anyway, the bible doesnt tell us. we have to figure out our own conviction from experience. alls we know is that even if it is a human language, that "in the spirit we speak mysteries", and "he who speaks in a tongue, speaks to god and not men", unless he interprets of course. so whether human or angelic, we are speaking to god. our "mind is unfruitful, but our spirits are fruitful!" so in this sense whether angelic or human, it seems to be a heavenly language. it is given from heaven and helps our spirit communicate with heaven.

but i dont think it is a code that the devil doesnt understand as i have heard people say. maybe it is, but i think he knows human and angelic languages, so.....

gbu

[TATDADDY aka kevin woltkamp]

But we dont see a "heavenly language" as the example given by the Holy Spirit at pentecost, we see earthly languages being spoken by way of divine gifting. If the day of pentecost is the example of the outpouring of the holy spirit then why would we stray from that gift of tongues being the ideal to follow?

Chris, where are the refrences you made when you said that not all "tongues" were earthly languages in the book of acts?

[Christopher Chapman]

bro kevin,

i said "in acts 2 they spoke human languages that were understood. in the other tongues passages in acts those present didnt understand. whether they were angelic or human language we cant know from the scripture."

not "Chris, where are the refrences you made when you said that not all "tongues" were earthly languages in the book of acts?"

the acts 8, 10, 19 i think. obviously they were not speaking greek or hebrew that those present could understand. otherwise the event would have been meaningless, because all those present could realistically probably know or have a partial knowledge of those languages. no one would have mentioned it if they were speaking a known language. so they were speaking different languages they didnt know. angelic, or human the scripture doesnt say.

acts 2, the day of pentecost, is not the ideal we are to follow. in that case we would need tongues of fire,and a rushing wind, and everyone understanding our speech. in the church interpretation is needed cause people dont understand. being gentiles outside of jerusalem, acts 10 and 19 would seem more our example to follow!!! no evangelism happened in those passages! do you evangelize with the supernatural gift of tongues? if not, why not? where does the bible say that acts 2 is our example for speaking in tongues?

can you show me a verse that says god cannot or will not give an angelic language to believers? if there is no scripture against it, i see no reason to say he never will. though the oppisite is true as well, i see no scripture that says he definetly gives angelic languages to believers. i think we can come to our own convictions from our own experience about our own experience. if i said god gave me an angelic tongue and revealed to me it was an angelic tongue, could you say i was unscriptural in anyway? if you could, couldnt we say if someone got healed of cancer, that they were unscriptural since there is no record of someone in the bible being healed of cancer? you would appeal to "all manner of sickness", i would appeal to "there are various kinds of tongues", "tongues of angels and men"!!!!

i have no conviction on the matter, i dont know whether we speak in angelic tongues or not, im just saying that we shouldnt have a negative conviction on something that is an open matter. that is my opinion anyway!

gbu