"The Mark of the beast"

[Christine Martinez]

Hi everyone! I'm pretty sure that this has been covered but I would really appreciate it if you guys could refresh my memory.

Rev 16:2 refers to God's wrath being poured out on those with the mark of the beast. Then Rev 13:8 says that all inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast-all EXCEPT whose names have been written in the book of life...

I know that if we are saved our names are written in the book of life, so does this mean that we can not take the "mark of the beast?"

The word also says in Rev 13:5 that the beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. This time frame of about 3 1/2 years, which is pretty close to a presidential term.

We are living in a very tumultuous time. (sorry this is going to be 2 discussions wrapped in one) I'm not sure if everyone is aware of this but our government is trying to be very sneaky and begin to remove our constitutional rights one by one. They are trying to pass a law that would mandate universal healthcare, which everyone would be REQUIRED to buy. If we choose not to buy this healthcare program (which infringes on our privacy rights amongst other things) we will face not only a $1900 fine but also MISDEMINOR JAIL TIME.

Also, the government is trying to ban "free speech radio" which encompasses CHRISTIAN talk radio. The law would mandate that unless both sides of arguements were not represented, the radio station could be sued for slander or things of that nature. For example, if a christian radio station takes a stand against homosexuality, they will be sued amongst other penalties.

The list of things our government is trying to do goes on and on. You can check out some of this information and other things going on at this website http://www.aclj.org/

I know that the word calls for patient endurance, faithfulness and wisdom during times like this. So I guess my question would be how else should a christian respond during times like these besides praying? I'm just really curious. I know that I, for one, can feel the spiritual warfare around us increasing.

[TATDADDY aka kevin woltkamp]

i have always understood the mark of the beast being taken by a person as a "willing" thing that a person does not something they are just duped into doing and i also think that believers would have been "raptured" during this time unless they come to faith after the "rapture". the current situations i believe are only the beginnings "in america" these issues are really not new in other areas of the world but they are to us here , so it seems very alarming. i think some of the things that are taking place in authority are beginnings to what will eventually take place toward christians exclusively . example, since the health care is directed toward all people it begins the process by which the authority begins to introduce this control then eventually because we become used to the system, its becomes only natural for Christians to be seen as "trouble makers" because we wont follow suit, because the things that authority wants will begin to directly violate Gods word and His desires. whats left, what Jesus said would happen, 1(birth pains) then trouble starts 2(tribulation) and we should look up because our salvation is coming nearer than when we first believe.

my opinion

[David Velasquez]

Revelation 13:15-20 (New King James Version)

15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[a] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

Your question, like all topics dealing with what most believe to be end time events (we have been in the end times since Christ came to earth), has multiple interpretations. We Pentecostals (the majority) go with the following:

The Rapture would have happened already and the church would not be around, so who is the word referring to when it states in Rev. 16: "all EXCEPT whose names have been written in the book of life..."

It's beleived by most that those words referred to two sets of Christians:

1- those who are saved, but where not Rapture because they were not living right at the time of the Rapture. These folks will have to loose their head because they will not take the mark.

Revelation 20:4
The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years


2. Revelations 14:1 The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

It is widely believed as well that the 144000 will be proclaiming the truth during the tribulation period and will bring some to salvation that will also not take the number of the beast.

As to your other question of what to do in times where our faith is being stripped of the freedom to proclaim it. We have a multitude of examples of what to do, but my favorite one is in:

Jude 1: 3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about[b] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

[Christopher Chapman]

christine,

my comments below came out more opinionated and rough than i meant. i think your questions are good and they havent been discussed, as far as i know. so please dont think i am pointing all my opinionated statements in your direction. actually you just hit on two topics, biblical (the mark of the beast) and political (right vs left) that really get under my skin. so i vented a little. but it wasnt at you, nor anyone, in any way. i was just in a "black and white" mood. and at least my venting will surely get under some peoples skin, so maybe more will commment! haha!!! it has been quiet recently, so thats a good thing! haha!!!

great questions sister!!!

1. mark of the beast topic-

- rev 13:16-17 mentions that the mark of the beast will be placed on the forhead or right hand of those that "worship" the beast. it also says that the "mark" is the name of the beast.

-2 verses later in 14:1 we read that the" name of god" will be written on the "forheads" of his followers. we see this in revelaton 7:3 as well, though it is called a "seal" not a mark. but it is obviously the same meaning, especially when we take ezekiel chapter 9 into account where the term "mark" is used.

so there is a "mark of the beast" and a "mark of God", both are the name of the repective entity. we have only 2 choices in how to interpret these phrases as far as i can see (and that is not too far most of the time! hehe!) ; either both marks are "physical" or they are both "spiritual". since no one i know beleives that god will really write his name on peoples head, i hold that they are both spiritual in nature. if we read ezekiel 9 we get a better understanding of the "mark of god" and the "mark of the beast". it is just a symbolic way of representing where our loyalties lie. either we are loyal to the beast and his kingdom or we are loyal to god and his kingdom. either we follow the religion of the beast and false prophet or the religion of God and his Christ!

as kevin mentioned above, this cant happen by accident. it is a matter of loyalties, not some physical mark of some sort like a microchip, that we allow in in our skin cause it saves us from carrying cash around. if we wanted to be literal with the "mark" we would have to say it is some sort of tattoo or "mark" on the skin, since that is the literal meaning of the greek word used for "mark". so getting a credit card, or surfing the net or having a debit card or any other thing is not the mark of the beast. serving in his kingdom and following his "religion" is the spiritual "mark". just as following god and his religion is the spiritual "mark" of god.

i also want to note that "receiving the mark" is not the unpardonable sin. for some reason our reading of revelation which is an apocalyptic book, is sometimes so rigid. we act like one that has gone the wrong way at some point can never repent or get saved. i think this is a problem with how we interpret the book of revelation. anyways....just my perpspective.

basically, i can sum up the dilema with this question: if the mark of the beast is a microchip or something, what is the mark of god in ezekiel nine and revealtions 7:3 and 14:1???? it seems obvious to me that both marks, good and bad are representing spiritual loyalties. ezekiel chapter 9 bears this out clearly in my opinion. but maybe i am missing something.

2. as for politics and health care etc. we have to pay taxes, we have to buy car insurance if we drive, we have to go school, we have to serve on the jury if requested, we have to join the army if there is a draft, etc. so if we have to pay for health care or other like things, i dont think it has anything to do with our faith in god. except that we should "pay all what is owed to them (the governing authorities): taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed." we are even suppose to pay health insurance if required by the government cause "there is no authority except what is established by god. therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what god has intituted, and those who resist will incur judgment".

if the government makes us all by health insurance, we should do it. if they tell us to kill babies or some other wicked thing, then we should disobey and face their punishment. but paying for health care might not be good policy, or even fair policy, but it is not sin. so we should vote against it if we feel it is wrong, but if we lose the vote, then we should "submit to the governing authorities ordained by god".

i take these quotes from romans 13:1-7. and we must remember that the roman government that paul was talking about was doing much more oppressive things than making us get health care and misusing our taxes. instead we were instructed that if we are "forced to go one mile" (a roman law said one had to carry a soldiers stuff if requested up to one mile) "go with him an extra mile". so we shouldnt always be afraid of "loosing our rights", as christians, we have none!!! instead we "give to ceaser" (or obama and those on the left wing) "what belongs to ceaser" (even if it is more taxes for unwise policies).

in any case, i dont think american political policy has anything to do with the kingdom of the beast in the book of revelation. of course the seventh day adventists would disagree with me at that point!!!

well these are my opinionated thoughts, i trust i will get some feedback!!! hehe!!

gbu
chris

[David Velasquez]

Chris,

hahaha can't wait to meet you Crazy bro! hahaha J/K about wanting to meet you not the part that you are crazy hahahaha Dude i feel like clowning today. hee hee

I do agree with your interpretation of the text dealing with the mark of the beast and actually dislike the alarmist among us that keep saying a new technology will be use for the mark of the beast. It really ticks me the wrong way. Like when Y2K – MEMBER? You member! I digress. No one really knows what to do with US in the kingdom of the beast in the book of revelation. There are a couple of of folks with some theories but... you know.

Hey i have been reading up on eschatology jedy from Jakarta, so prepare to put up a fight and be challenge. hahaha. :) i am on my jester mood, so excuse me.

[J.J.]

well, to toss some of my chips in the poker pile, universal healthcare would suck (can i say that here???), but if everyone had heath insurance, that would be a dream come true - in my humble opinion. as for radio, the way i understand it, they want radio to be sponsored instead of free. once a radio stationed is fully sponsored (or supported by its listeners), then they can say whatever they want. that would then put "public" (or unsponsored) radio in a position to not say whatever it wanted and would therefore be obligated to present all views. in my opinion, radio had been free forever, they just see an opportunity to make some dough off the airwaves.

as for the mark of the beast, etc., i agree with chris.