The Gap Theory

[Jorge]

Please explain the "Gap Theory" the best you could...I have met a few in our fellowship that believe in it...wouldn't debate...but believe it. What is this 'theory' exactly?
Was there or was there not some sort of pre-Adamic race??? human or not.
Thoughts Please???

[Robert Jimenez]

Chris, you have some very valid questions. I think that we can pretty much date Abraham with some certainty, and work our why backwards from there. I need to think about it some more before I respond. Or maybe I will come back with a changed mind ;-) Not like I haven't changed my positions over the years.

Well it's a subject that I have abandoned a long time ago so I am very rusty, I would have to go back and do some research.

I think that we agree that it is not an essential doctrine (i.e. required for salvation). That is why I would consider this a secondary issue.

[Jorge]

Here's one way I've heard it taught before...remember those who teach this string together many scriptures to make sense of this:
Gen. 1:1 & 2 say
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The "Gap" in question is found between verse 1 and 2.
Verse 1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." and then goes on to say in verse 2 and the earth "was without form and void."
Those who teach this point out that the word "void" specifically means empty space or an indistinguishable ruin. I've also heard it means 'destruction' meaning that it was not perfect as God first created it.
Deut. 32:4 says His "work is perfect..."

Isaiah 45:18 says,
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

point is that when God created the heavens and the earth it was perfect and then in verse two there it was no longer perfect.
Question: was there a sudden judgement???
Job 9:5-7 says,
Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.

also look at Jer. 4:23-28...
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

This is where the teacher of the "Gap Theory" may introduce the "Pre-Adamic" race???
I've heard it asked if these verses found in Jer. 4 could be speaking of a people or whatever you want to call it were destroyed.
Also the Pre-Adamic race has been said to be the 'demons' of today...and I have heard Benny Hinn is one who believes this...and his discription of this pre-adamic race...it's NOT HUMAN! they look like the locust found in Revelation 9.

Gen. 1:28 says,
"...and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and REPLENISH the earth..."
The question asked is how can you "REPLENISH" unless it was filled before?
If it was once filled then what was it once filled with???

As mentioned before Revelation 9 speaks of these Locust who have a king named in Hebrew "Abaddon" or in the Greek "Apollyon" believed to be satan himself!
A quick study of locust show that they have no king...How does one know? Prov. 30:27 says "the locust have no king..."
What's the point...as mentioned before....these demons from Rev. 9 may be the "Pre-Adamic" race...these creatures who were shaped like horses with crowns like gold, hair like woman, teeth like lions, and wings that sounded like chariots...and face like men.
In other words these are not REALLY locust but demons...who have a king...namely satan.

So it has been said that Gen. 1:2 should read
"But the earth BECAME without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep:"
Speaking of an unnatural darkness. Just as in Ex. 10:21.

The Gap Theory is said to have been first suggested by Thomas Chalmers in 1814.
Its actually supported by a handful of good men including some in our Fellowship.

[Jorge]

Another thing to take note of is that the angels witnessed the foundations of the earth...
Job 38:4-7
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Apparently the angels witnessed the foundations of the earth...
Bar Elohim "Sons of God" = angels.



as for new earth old earth view...I hold to the new earth view.
Ex. 20:8-11 says,
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

verse 11 says "six days" there written by the finger of the LORD himself. and so I take it literally.
As for the science of it all...I believe there was a WORLD FLOOD that would explain much about this.

Thats it for now.

[David Diga Hernandez]

Here is the problem I have with the gap theory: Look at the history of this theory. When and why was it formed? It was a bend to the pressure of the then progressing popularity of evolutionism. I hold a young earth view. Why? Because there is more OBSERVABLE SCIENTIFIC evidence for it than the "old earth" theory. If you hold an Old Earth view, check your Bible, and, please, get your diploma. It goes against so many basic laws- maybe it would work in another universe, but not this one.

Also, it is contrary to many basic Biblical beliefs:

The Lord said it was good (Gen 1:31) vs. The Devil would be present at that time if the Bible were true.

Rev 21:1 - If the first earth passed away already, then is this Heaven?

Exodus 20:11 - everything was created in six days. Don't fall for what those "Greek/Hebrew" fanatics try to falsely convey. They'll say something to the effect of "While the Hebrew word can mean time periods", but please, show me in at least one other instance where that words wasn't used to convey literal "days" Those are the same people who claim to compare scripture with scripture.

Satan rejoiced when the foundations were laid - Job 38:1-4, and the foundations of the earth were laid on day three (Gen 1:9)

Also, the gap theory that death brought man into the world, when scripture teaches that man brought death into the world. It also violates these scriptures:
Gen 1:5; 2:2-3; Ex 20:11; Heb 4:4; Rom 5:2; 1 Cor 15:21; Ez 28:12-15

And I have a few questions for gap theory people:

Was there death before Adam's sin?

When did Satan fall?

Was Satan already the God of this world? 2 cor 4:5 vs. Gen 1:26-28

1000s of species of living animals were also found as fossils - Did God recreate these?

When God said that everything was "good", was Satan evil, were Adam and Eve standing on thousands of dead plants and animals?

Wouldn't Noah's flood have erased all evidence of billions of years?

What did God mean in these verses? Ex 20:11; 31:17

Does everyone need a "Guru" to understand the Bible?

Ask yourself why they needed a gap in the first place? Why? They panicked! Evolutionism was becoming popular, but it has NO evidence to support it (sorry "old earth" christians :( )

Was Adam the first man or not? 1 Cor 15:45

Doesn't the word "Yom" mean day?

24 hour
12 hour
Day of the Lord

There are no verses in the Bible where "Yom" means anything other than a normal 24 hour day if it is modified with a number like "the second day"

Trust me, I have more. Be glad to debate. I'll destroy your faith in the gap theory, and any other old earth theory. In love, of course : )

[Robert Jimenez]

David H., you sound angry ;-)

I still think the earth is old, or at least God made it look that way. This is a science issue, don't see how this changes any biblical matters at all.

Plus if God wanted to create us by way of evolution so what? It doesn't change or rattle my cage. It does not change who God is, or Christ, or the resurrection.

I don't believe in evolution, and I don't embrace the Gap theory, but I still think the earth is old. And Diga, don't get nasty J.P. Moreland is one of those "Greek/Hebrew fanatics" you mention. Dr. Hugh Ross also believes in an old earth. But really is this an issue to cause anyone grief? Down boy, down.

Debate, if I were 19 years old like you I would debate everyone, but I am 42, and don't have the energy nor care to on a topic like this. As a matter of fact debating is not my thing anymore, just love to teach and impart into other the little God has taught me over the last 28 years. Which isn't much as I can see that you are far more advance than the rest of us. It's as if you are from another planet. hahaha

Just joking - love you! Keep it up at least you have a different point of view, which is usually controversial but that's how you like it.

[David Diga Hernandez]

"David H., you sound angry ;-)"

Always!

"I still think the earth is old, or at least God made it look that way. This is a science issue, don't see how this changes any biblical matters at all."

Show me at least one example of observable scientific evidence, PLEASE! And don't say, "Well, there's just so much of it." Give me one that I cannot show to be complete nonsense. Use science, not philosophy. This is not a science issue!


"I don't believe in evolution, and I don't embrace the Gap theory, but I still think the earth is old. And Diga, don't get nasty J.P. Moreland is one of those "Greek/Hebrew fanatics" you mention. Dr. Hugh Ross also believes in an old earth. But really is this an issue to cause anyone grief? Down boy, down."

Hey, you labeled J.P. Moreland as a greek/hebrew fanatic, not me. I was referring to those who use greek/hebrew for every little verse. Sometimes we should just trust the intelligence of the translators. Is J.P. Moreland a greek/hebrew fanatic? No. So was I talking about him? No. So why did you try to throw him in there? I haven't a clue! Where's my snack!!!

"Which isn't much as I can see that you are far more advance than the rest of us."

A key to debate is becoming one with those who hear you. I love your "rest of us" comment. ; ) And by the way, just because I have a better point, doesn't me you should take that as me thinking myself "more advance than the rest of us". My writing is just better, that's all. Of course, I'll sound smarter than you, especially because I use more scriptures. : P


"Just joking - love you! Keep it up at least you have a different point of view, which is usually controversial but that's how you like it."

Deep down, you know you like it when I do this too.

In love (especially for jerome)

David H.

[Robert Jimenez]

Diga,

you win! The earth is old.

Oh, I thought your slam was against anyone that uses Hebrew/Greek to understand the scriptures. It was JP Moreland that stated that the Hebrew word for Yom does not just mean days (literal).

But here is what your opponents say, and to be fair one Scientific peace of evidence:
The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.

Feel free to respond, but really don't expect me to engage anymore, just not interested in this subject. This is about as interesting as Eschatology is to me - just not interested. I have embraced Jerome's Pan-Tribulation

[Robert Jimenez]

Hey Diga,

all joking aside the reason that I don't get all bent out of shape on this topic because no essential doctrine is comprised in regards to what position you take. Young - Old, the doctrine of Christ, God, Salvation, etc none of these are affected by which position you hold.

I think it is worth showing respect to those that do not hold your position, and understanding why I (we) hold to it. If your goal is to try and understand and learn (and by learn I don't mean change your position), then I don't have a problem continuing the dialog, but if your only interest is to show what you know and not learn then I am not all interested in this sort of circus.

[Pastor Jerome H. Weymouth]

Little David: Peace and be still, taking a step and take another and another, rethink your delivery. Peace out! And be nice.
Sincerely Pastor Jerome

[David Diga Hernandez]

The word replenish, now days, means to "fill again", however, it did not mean this until 1620. Prior to that date it only meant "to fill". And when did we get the KJV? Bingo! 1611.

[Jorge]

Alright Diga...where do I sign up for your school my brother??? No in all seriousness I love how you laid it all out.
I hope I didn't come off as a "Gap" believer...my point was only to show how I heard it taught. As mentioned before I questioned this theory some years ago and was yelled at for questioning it. Now the person who did the yelling is very well known in our fellowship so I will not toss out his name in public.

Now, the one thing you mentioned I had not known was about the word replenish...curious to know where you got your info.
Good word brother,

Robert, I understand there are some good men on both sides of the new earth old earth debate such as Ross...who I like...I just don't agree with him that the earth is old. He also believes in a local flood rather than a world flood...problem is that there's been many floods since Noah.
Good evening!
ImOut!
~jorge

[David Diga Hernandez]

Jerome,

My "Tone" is nothing to be concerned about. I am "being nice". Show me in one instance where I was cruel. Passionate? Yes. Confident? Absolutely. Sarcastic? Always a little for effective modern journalism. Mean? Please, point out where. And don't think I didn't catch your condescending title: "Little David". Just kidding. Like I said before; try to understand the tone, not necessarily the words.